Episode 171

High Tides & Good Vibes: Building Family Entertainment

Published on: 11th June, 2025

In this episode of Surf City Programs, Tyler, Chris and special guest Erik discuss the exciting development of a new family entertainment center in Surf City. They explore the vision behind the project, the challenges of navigating the real estate landscape, and the importance of community support. The conversation delves into the design and planning of the entertainment center, emphasizing the need for local investment and collaboration among businesses. Personal reflections on success, failure, and the legacy they hope to leave for future generations are also shared, highlighting the community's growth and the positive impact of the project.

Surf City, family entertainment, community development, local investment, real estate, entertainment center design, business growth, legacy, collaboration, personal success


Transcript
Chris:

welcome back to the Whiskey and Wisdom Podcast.

2

:

This is yet another episode

of the Surf City Chronicles.

3

:

Today you have your constant co-host

Chris Kellum, and I'm with Tyler, y'all.

4

:

And our special guest, Eric

5

:

Tyler: Shirley.

6

:

Thanks for coming on and introducing

us to this awesome place.

7

:

That's obviously currently

in Under construction.

8

:

It's also a very first for the

Whiskey and Muslim podcast.

9

:

Oh,

10

:

Chris: is it really first

time on a construction site?

11

:

Exactly.

12

:

Very cool.

13

:

Yeah.

14

:

I'm surprised this is the first,

but not, I was gonna say, I mean,

15

:

technically our studio is in a

construction site for a while.

16

:

Tyler: Yeah, but you couldn't

17

:

Chris: see it.

18

:

But this is a much

cooler construction site.

19

:

This

20

:

Erik: is very much under construction.

21

:

I love it.

22

:

We have

23

:

Chris: dirt piles around us,

which makes it even more fun.

24

:

So because it's a construction

site, unfortunately we're

25

:

not allowed to be imbibing.

26

:

So Tyler, what are you drinking?

27

:

Tyler: I brought some pur tide water.

28

:

So we're gonna keep it local here.

29

:

So one of our past guests, Tyler

Williams, is the owner of Pur Tide and

30

:

he is all about making sure you are

not drinking your water and plastics.

31

:

'cause you don't need any more

microplastics in your body

32

:

than what we already have.

33

:

So if you're in that

surf city topsoil area.

34

:

He will actually drop off these

PLAs, the not plastic bottles, but

35

:

glass bottles to your house, just

like the old milk man used to.

36

:

And that way you're having fresh

water straight to your house.

37

:

And he just came up with a brand new

mineral blend which is what we've been

38

:

trying today and keeping us hydrated

while we're out on the construction site.

39

:

Erik: He's a, he's a great guy as well.

40

:

He's he's doing an awesome

thing with that project.

41

:

Tyler: Yeah.

42

:

Chris: So.

43

:

Tell us about yourself and how

we ended up in this great space.

44

:

Sure.

45

:

Erik: So, my name's Eric Shirley.

46

:

I've lived in Surf City for about eight

years now, and one of my companies, four

47

:

Oaks Capital Development Group came up

with this concept of basically bringing

48

:

family entertainment to this area.

49

:

You know, we felt as locals,

we were driving all the way out

50

:

to Wilmington or Jacksonville.

51

:

Every single weekend, whether it was

for a birthday party or a rainy Sunday,

52

:

just trying to find something to do.

53

:

And we felt like there was a

huge unmet need for this type

54

:

of product in this market.

55

:

And so, one of my good friends and

business partners, Frankie Williams,

56

:

he and I over lunch started sketching

out the idea on the back of a napkin.

57

:

And here we are sitting on the

dirt looking to open in October.

58

:

So.

59

:

That's awesome.

60

:

Yeah.

61

:

It's, it's gonna be a 40,000 square

foot family entertainment center

62

:

anchored by 16 lanes of bowling.

63

:

Wow.

64

:

We'll have a two story laser tag arena

projection darts, projection ax throwing

65

:

gosh, two multi-sport simulators,

four restaurant and bar 65 RK games.

66

:

Three story climbing tower for the

kids ropes course in the ceiling.

67

:

And then then a 4,000 square foot

beer garden outside to top it all off.

68

:

That's awesome.

69

:

So, yeah.

70

:

Truly something for everyone.

71

:

Tyler: Yeah.

72

:

One, one stop shop for sure.

73

:

Erik: That's the goal.

74

:

Tyler: Yeah.

75

:

So to kind of go backwards a

little bit before we come forwards.

76

:

Sure.

77

:

How'd you get involved with Four Oaks

Capital and kind of how did that come

78

:

about before we got to where we are now?

79

:

Erik: Yeah, so I don't wanna go too

far back, but I need to for the origin

80

:

of kind of how all this came about.

81

:

I was a collegiate swimmer at

the College of Charleston, and

82

:

while I was still in school.

83

:

My roommate and I started flipping

houses and we flipped about 35 homes

84

:

while we were still in, in college.

85

:

Oh, wow.

86

:

And that kind of transitioned from

house flipping into residential

87

:

buy and hold for rentals.

88

:

Mm-hmm.

89

:

And then I built up a, a.

90

:

Fairly robust residential portfolio,

and it just was not achieving the

91

:

goals I wanted to achieve long term.

92

:

I had a nine to five along the way and in

medical device sales, I was in gynecologic

93

:

surgery for the better part of 15 years.

94

:

Okay.

95

:

And so I, I really started

exploring other options in housing.

96

:

And so I launched Four Oaks

Capital with a good friend of mine,

97

:

Brian Mallon, up in New Jersey.

98

:

About eight, eight and a half

years ago now, and it started

99

:

with apartment complexes.

100

:

We bought our first apartment complex in

Spartanburg, South Carolina, and we kind

101

:

of slowly built that and built the capital

raising side of it and ended up with a

102

:

little over 2000 doors and eight years.

103

:

Wow.

104

:

Raised over a hundred million

dollars in that timeframe and it

105

:

showed us that, hey, this is how

this sector of the world works.

106

:

Yeah.

107

:

Right.

108

:

We had never been exposed to that.

109

:

So COVID was pretty tough in

the, in the multifamily world.

110

:

There was a CDC eviction moratorium

where you couldn't evict tenants.

111

:

And, and for better or for worse, I

think the intent behind that was great.

112

:

But it, it, it unfortunately led to a

lot of people stopping paying rent for

113

:

the wrong reasons and that mentality.

114

:

Change that entire landscape.

115

:

Mm-hmm.

116

:

So we started to divest some of that

product about three or four years ago

117

:

and launched our developmental arm.

118

:

Tyler: Okay.

119

:

Erik: Doing commercial and

residential subdivisions.

120

:

Commercial complexes.

121

:

And then we have an experiential product

arm, which that family entertainment

122

:

falls under that experiential product

recreation complex supports, complexes.

123

:

So that's kind of the world that

we're living, living in today.

124

:

So that's a long-winded answer,

but that's how we got here.

125

:

Tyler: Sweet.

126

:

So the nerdy business side of me.

127

:

So will you also be managing the

day-to-day of it as well, or are you

128

:

gonna have a management company coming in?

129

:

Erik: So we will, unlike

multifamily, where you have a third

130

:

party management company, right.

131

:

We will have a management team

underneath our umbrella, but it

132

:

will be underneath our umbrella.

133

:

Okay.

134

:

So we'll have a gm, an A GM, we'll

have a kitchen manager, a bar manager,

135

:

and then we'll have an owner's rep.

136

:

It essentially represents us on this,

this is our flagship location, but the

137

:

ultimate goal is to build somewhere

between 10 and 20 of these, over a five

138

:

to six state radius over the next decade.

139

:

Wow.

140

:

So we've already started the

hunt for land for number two.

141

:

Yeah.

142

:

Yeah.

143

:

And we're off to the races.

144

:

Tyler: That's incredible.

145

:

Erik: So, well, thank you.

146

:

We're, we're proud of it.

147

:

And we think it's such an awesome

industry to, to, you know.

148

:

The whole goal of this industry

is making people happy, right?

149

:

Yeah.

150

:

Bringing joy.

151

:

And there's not a lot of

industries that that's the goal.

152

:

And so we think that's cool.

153

:

Yeah.

154

:

Chris: I'm happy that you've,

one, it stinks that it's taken

155

:

so long for this part of the

state to get something like this.

156

:

Sure.

157

:

But I think it's the right time.

158

:

Erik: I would agree.

159

:

I, I think, you know, for those of you

that aren't super familiar with Surf

160

:

City, we've doubled our population

three times in the last five years.

161

:

Wow.

162

:

Our median age is around 37.

163

:

Almost three kids per household

and Amina household, mean household

164

:

income over a hundred thousand.

165

:

So it's, it's prime, it's ripe.

166

:

And there's just nothing else here.

167

:

You know, it's, the beach is,

is amazing and I, I'm a surfer.

168

:

I, I live, you know, right at the beach.

169

:

That's my home away from home.

170

:

But the reality is for a lot of people

in the transient aspect that come in and

171

:

rent a house for a week, their sunburn by

day two, they're hung over by day three.

172

:

And they're looking for something to

do that has some air conditioning.

173

:

Tyler: That's true.

174

:

Erik: So that's where we, we

hope to fill that void and,

175

:

and kind of fill that niche.

176

:

Tyler: I was gonna say it is the

kinda the perfect timing too.

177

:

'cause if it was even, like you

said five years ago, like 40,000

178

:

square feet might have been a little

bit too soon to the, to the races.

179

:

Yeah.

180

:

Erik: 100%.

181

:

And, and so much of this with this

kind of product is right sizing

182

:

it for the local demographics.

183

:

Right.

184

:

So like, just for easy sake, Jacksonville

right up the road with a, a younger

185

:

marine population being as family

oriented, not that family wouldn't be

186

:

important there, but having more thrill.

187

:

Things like go-karts or, you know,

you, you're really catering the

188

:

size and the attraction base to

the demographics of that market.

189

:

So while this is 40,000 square

feet, our next location might

190

:

only be 23,000 square feet.

191

:

Yeah.

192

:

But the goal is to be the king

of what we call the B market.

193

:

Right.

194

:

A market that's big enough to sustain

the business model but small enough

195

:

that someone would be foolish to come

in and try to build a competing product.

196

:

True.

197

:

Yeah.

198

:

So that, that's kind of our, our

strategy with this whole rollout.

199

:

Nice.

200

:

Chris: No, that makes sense.

201

:

Especially like from

a business standpoint.

202

:

Tyler loves talking about finances,

but I talk to Brittany and Tyler

203

:

all the time about like just

random different business models.

204

:

Sure.

205

:

And like different ideas and.

206

:

And that's one of the things that

I don't think a lot of people

207

:

think about is, is this market

pres saturated or oversaturated?

208

:

I guess pres saturated is not

really a thing, but knowing

209

:

what, saying unmet need.

210

:

Yes, yes, yes.

211

:

I'm like, do we need that here?

212

:

And I, I think there's a lot of

things that this area can pick up and.

213

:

Maintain, which is really good.

214

:

Erik: So it's interesting, I,

I'm the chair of the Surf City

215

:

Economic Development Committee.

216

:

One of the things we talk about

constantly is where are our pain points?

217

:

You know, everyone needs restaurants, but

if you're building a restaurant, it, it's,

218

:

you just have to build a better mousetrap.

219

:

'cause you have competition.

220

:

Right, right.

221

:

But there's so much that we need here that

we travel 45 minutes to an hour to get.

222

:

We don't have a dry cleaners.

223

:

We have to drive all the way

to Wilmington or Jacksonville

224

:

for a dry cleaner childcare.

225

:

You know, there's no

daycares really around here.

226

:

So it's, it's the little things

that it's very easy to take

227

:

for granted in a larger market.

228

:

Yeah.

229

:

That we get stuck, you know, going,

putting in the time to get to Yeah.

230

:

And, and those are, to your point, I, I

think the, the successful entrepreneurs

231

:

in this market can take advantage of

those opportunities and fill those

232

:

unmet needs and have tremendous success.

233

:

Tyler: Yeah, that's kind of what we've

noticed just for the past two years of

234

:

doing this kind of travel up to the Topal

Surf City area is the, the people that

235

:

make it the best are the ones that see

that unmet need and take the first step.

236

:

Erik: Absolutely.

237

:

And And there's a lot of unmet need

here, so there's a lot of opportunity.

238

:

I'm sure, I don't know when this

will air, but when you drive over the

239

:

bridge all the way down to kind of the

Publix here in Surf City on 2 10 50.

240

:

There's seven or eight new

construction sites coming, right?

241

:

And we've got a Cape Fear

Seafood coming, a Starbucks an

242

:

oil change place, a new hotel.

243

:

So, you know, it, it's prime time for

Surf City and we're growing to, to the

244

:

detriment in some people's mind, but at

the end of the day, the growth is coming.

245

:

So it's how do we right size the product

and how do we control the growth?

246

:

As a community to try to encourage

the right businesses to come in

247

:

and not a lot of other me toos.

248

:

Tyler: Right.

249

:

I know for especially these type of

areas, 'cause like I'm from Leland,

250

:

they also are kind of like slow.

251

:

They're growing really fast, but

they don't really like the type

252

:

of growth that's happening there.

253

:

It is what it is, right.

254

:

And you have to be where the people

are at and meet them where they're at.

255

:

So I guess that's a long

way of asking the question.

256

:

I know in some areas people are hesitant

for a brand new construction site.

257

:

In my mind, I think this

is perfect for this area.

258

:

Have you come against some people

that are like, I don't know if I

259

:

want something that large here?

260

:

Erik: It's not necessarily the size.

261

:

I, I think the o we have

had overwhelmingly positive

262

:

feedback from the community.

263

:

Yeah.

264

:

There's always naysayers.

265

:

Of course.

266

:

The, the biggest complaint we've

gotten as to what this will

267

:

bring to the area is the traffic.

268

:

Ah, you know, traffic is already a

challenge and the reality is, you know.

269

:

For whatever reason, there's

one way in and one way out.

270

:

And, and that's what we have to work with.

271

:

And so it is what it is.

272

:

You know,

273

:

I, I think that anytime you're

building a project, you have

274

:

to look at the upside, right?

275

:

And so we look at this as

infrastructurally, surf City has some

276

:

challenges that we're working on.

277

:

And so a lot of the naysayers

that, that complain about a project

278

:

like this, they also complain.

279

:

About other things like infrastructure

and, well, infrastructure costs money.

280

:

Yes.

281

:

Right.

282

:

Well, the way to raise money is either

raise taxes or businesses come in so

283

:

that the tax revenue goes to the town.

284

:

Right?

285

:

Yep.

286

:

So it's like, you know, you

can't have it both ways.

287

:

And we try to look at the positive

aspects of it, of we're filling

288

:

an unmet me unmet, unmet need in

the community while simultaneously

289

:

bringing a project in that can.

290

:

Have real tax implications in a positive

way for the town to help with some

291

:

of those infrastructure challenges.

292

:

Right.

293

:

Chris: I think that's one of, like,

I never think about that as a normal

294

:

person is, gosh, this road is two

lanes and there's so much traffic

295

:

on it, and why didn't they think to

expand it, you know, when they saw it?

296

:

And people, I don't, don't think

realize how much information has to

297

:

be gathered and how much money is.

298

:

Has to be collected before

they can start doing that.

299

:

Like this road is definitely, needs

to be a four lane with all the traffic

300

:

that comes into it, but then you're

taking away more stuff, you're adding

301

:

more construction, and there's no

way they're gonna finish that in

302

:

the, the slow season around here.

303

:

Sure.

304

:

Erik: Well, and, and just logistically

it's, it's not achievable because

305

:

you're still gonna have a bottleneck

at the bridge on both sides.

306

:

Right.

307

:

So it's one of those things

of, it's, it's a growing pain.

308

:

But it, it happens in every market ever.

309

:

You know, at the end of the day, the

beach is a highly sought out, you know,

310

:

amenity and traffic is gonna be there.

311

:

Yeah.

312

:

You know, for better or for worse.

313

:

Yeah.

314

:

Tyler: So when, when this is

all finished here, I know you

315

:

still have a few months to go.

316

:

Yep.

317

:

What are you most excited about?

318

:

Erik: Wow.

319

:

That's a great question.

320

:

I, I think one of the things I'm

most excited and you hear the

321

:

construction in the background there.

322

:

Yeah.

323

:

But one of the things I'm most

excited about is the legacy I'm

324

:

leaving for my kids in this community.

325

:

We moved here eight years ago from

Columbia, South Carolina, and this

326

:

community and this place changed

my family's life for the better

327

:

to be able to raise our kids here.

328

:

The people in this community are amazing.

329

:

The town is awesome.

330

:

The, the recreation

programs here are awesome.

331

:

So there's so much good that

the town has done for us.

332

:

So to bring a project that fills an

unmet need that will thrive in this

333

:

community that we can be proud of

that's what I'm most excited about is,

334

:

is, you know, giving something back

to the community as almost a repayment

335

:

of, of what it's done for my family.

336

:

Tyler: That's awesome.

337

:

And what brought you up here

from Columbia, South Carolina?

338

:

Erik: Yeah, so I born

and raised in Columbia.

339

:

My parents are still there, my

sister's still there, and we always

340

:

said we wanted to retire at the beach.

341

:

And then we came and visited

a buddy of mine that lived on

342

:

the island in November of 2016.

343

:

Fell in love with it

and literally went home.

344

:

Put our house on the market,

bought a house here and we

345

:

were here in January of 2017.

346

:

Oh wow.

347

:

So within three months.

348

:

That's, that's how much of

an impact this place Right.

349

:

Yes.

350

:

Had on us.

351

:

That's neat.

352

:

So, it, it's, there's something

special about Surf City.

353

:

It still has that small town feel

despite the growth and you know,

354

:

it is just a really cool community.

355

:

Tyler: That's kind of neat

hearing, hearing you say that from

356

:

the South Carolina perspective.

357

:

'cause we just got back from Surf City.

358

:

Smash, yeah.

359

:

Down the road.

360

:

And so George came down from

New York, but still very similar

361

:

story where he came down to visit

and just fell in love with it.

362

:

It was like, Hey, we're

moving, we're going down there.

363

:

We don't know where we're living

yet, but we're coming down

364

:

Erik: and we hear a lot of that.

365

:

It's funny.

366

:

So, we, there's a lot of

that in this community.

367

:

Obviously we have a lot of MARSOC

folks here and a lot of guys from, from

368

:

the military base up in Jacksonville.

369

:

Well, one thing that I think is

unique about this project that

370

:

I do want to touch on is we've,

we raised capital for a living.

371

:

That's what our parent company does.

372

:

When we had this project, we could

have gone to our traditional investor

373

:

network and raised all the money.

374

:

We decided to try to do things

a little bit differently.

375

:

So we had a dinner and we offered

shares to this business on, on the

376

:

capital raising front, locally.

377

:

And we raised a hundred percent, a

little over $5 million, a hundred

378

:

percent local in Surf City.

379

:

Wow.

380

:

Which I think is a huge testament

that's, that's massive to the

381

:

buy-in from the community.

382

:

Yeah.

383

:

And people wanting to be a part of

something that not everyone can say.

384

:

And I'm, I'm one of 'em that can't say it.

385

:

I didn't have 15 million bucks

in my back pocket to go and build

386

:

a family entertainment center.

387

:

Yeah.

388

:

No.

389

:

I went to the bank and they

would've laughed me out, you

390

:

know, laughed me out of the bank.

391

:

So when we brought these people together.

392

:

Everyone was like, wow, I can have

essentially fractional ownership of

393

:

a facility where I can go in with

my family and not only support it,

394

:

but be proud when family comes in to

visit or friends come in to visit, be

395

:

like we, we are part owners in that.

396

:

And I think that's such a cool opportunity

and a cool mentality that we were

397

:

able to bring this community as well.

398

:

Tyler: Yeah, that is

really neat and especially.

399

:

I'm not sure we talked about on this

podcast yet, but like Surf City and

400

:

the surrounding areas isn't massive.

401

:

Erik: No.

402

:

Tyler: So for having such a small

community base to pull that type

403

:

of capital out of and have that

type of backing, that says a lot.

404

:

That's really neat.

405

:

It, it's, it's,

406

:

Erik: it's been so well received in that.

407

:

Capacity.

408

:

And you know, frankly, we're a

little bit behind construction.

409

:

We were hoping to open in June.

410

:

Normally in my previous investments that

where we've raised capital, you know, if

411

:

you're behind the eight ball, you, you're,

you're hearing about it on a daily basis.

412

:

Yeah.

413

:

Time is money and just the understanding

of people saying, look, we wanna do this.

414

:

Right.

415

:

Yeah.

416

:

You know, let's get it done.

417

:

Let's, you know, for us, we wanted

to open originally before 4th of July

418

:

originally Memorial Day timeframe.

419

:

Yeah, that makes sense.

420

:

We would've been thrown to the wolves.

421

:

Yeah, you know, it to, to open in peak

season, a facility like this, you need

422

:

to work out the kinks and you wanna make

sure everyone has a great experience.

423

:

And so to be able to do that in

the off season everyone's been so

424

:

supportive of the, that, of, you

know, let's, let's get it right.

425

:

Yeah.

426

:

So that when the throngs

of people come in, right.

427

:

You know, we're a well-oiled

machine and, and 'cause you

428

:

only get one first impression.

429

:

Tyler: Yeah.

430

:

Yeah.

431

:

I guess the other benefit to the, the

investors too, that are local is they

432

:

could come in and enjoy it on their own

before they have everyone else kind of

433

:

absolutely slam packed and everything too.

434

:

Erik: Yeah.

435

:

Well, and again, I said it

earlier, but I think it's a, it's

436

:

a testament to that un unmet need.

437

:

Oh, for sure.

438

:

People said, oh my gosh,

we need this so badly.

439

:

And then to have a chance to

be a part of it on top of that.

440

:

Right.

441

:

Like, it's a great opportunity.

442

:

Chris: Yeah.

443

:

So I'm gonna ask, I have two questions.

444

:

Sure.

445

:

For this concept, how did you figure

out what you wanted to put into it?

446

:

Because there's so many different options.

447

:

Yep.

448

:

And two, why didn't you go for go-karts

449

:

Erik: space?

450

:

So, we're on five acres.

451

:

Our stormwater retention pond had to be

an acre an acres about 43,000 square feet.

452

:

And needless to say, for a

facility this size, you need a

453

:

tremendous amount of parking.

454

:

Right.

455

:

So knowing all of that, it

was just space constraints.

456

:

Okay.

457

:

We may or may not have tried to buy some

of the adjacent parcels unsuccessfully

458

:

for future expansion opportunities.

459

:

But as far as what went in the facility,

believe it or not, there's a tremendous

460

:

amount of science that went into this.

461

:

Okay?

462

:

So, first and foremost.

463

:

My, my company has always abided

by a motto of two twofold, but

464

:

primarily if, if I'm the smartest guy

in the room, I'm in the wrong room.

465

:

Chris: Mm-hmm.

466

:

Erik: I, I know what I know really,

really well, but I have the humility

467

:

to know what I'm not good at.

468

:

And this is a space we've never entered.

469

:

So we went out and found

the best in the space.

470

:

And so we hired a guy outta

New Jersey, named Jerry Marola.

471

:

He's been doing this for 35 years.

472

:

He's built over 300 of

these as a consultant.

473

:

Chris: Wow.

474

:

Erik: Sheesh.

475

:

So he has the knowledge.

476

:

So we brought him in in

a consultatory fashion.

477

:

He's been with us from inception through

construction and will be with us for

478

:

two to three years in a consultatory

fashion during the operational side.

479

:

And Jerry just knows what works

and what markets and with what

480

:

demographics, looking at transient

population versus repeat.

481

:

Local business and and really

looking at every aspect of it.

482

:

So we had very little say

in what went into this.

483

:

We could have vetoed some things, but

why go against, you know, the master?

484

:

Sure.

485

:

But some of the science, like,

I'll give you an example.

486

:

Bowling.

487

:

You, you rent the lane by the hour.

488

:

Yeah.

489

:

Yeah.

490

:

So there's studies that have been done

that if you serve the first drink to

491

:

a patron within the first five minutes

of that hour, there's a 92% likelihood

492

:

they'll have three drinks instead of two.

493

:

Wow.

494

:

When you look at the margin on f and b.

495

:

Chris: Yeah, that's

496

:

Erik: a tremendous, that

third beverage, yeah.

497

:

Every time is a tremendous

profit margin for the facility.

498

:

So, you know, knowing that and making

sure we laid things out of, you know,

499

:

where is the kitchen in the bar In

conjunction to that, how can our

500

:

wait staff navigate that to be able

to, to capitalize on that, right?

501

:

Mm-hmm.

502

:

Same thing with the food side, right?

503

:

Like if someone orders a pizza

45 minutes into their one hour.

504

:

The bowling lane and they get

their pizza right at the time

505

:

that they're getting kicked off.

506

:

Not kicked off, but that

they're how bowling is up.

507

:

Chris: Yeah.

508

:

Erik: You know, you have an unhappy

patron that's like, man, what the heck?

509

:

I just Exactly.

510

:

Bold ordered food and now

you're, you're pushing me along.

511

:

Yeah.

512

:

So the timing of everything

is so paramount and important.

513

:

The three story climbing tower that

I mentioned for younger kids mm-hmm.

514

:

We found that through some market

surveys, families don't leave.

515

:

When the oldest kid is tired,

they leave When the three yearold

516

:

or the 4-year-old is fair.

517

:

Yeah.

518

:

Is having a rough time.

519

:

That makes sense.

520

:

Well, there's not a ton of stuff

here for three and four year olds.

521

:

Oh no.

522

:

So we said we need an attraction

catered to that age group

523

:

to keep people here longer.

524

:

Right.

525

:

The longer they're here, inherently,

the more money they'll spend.

526

:

Chris: Yeah.

527

:

Yeah.

528

:

Erik: So not to be a capitalistic

pig, but at the end of the day,

529

:

you know, this isn't a nonprofit.

530

:

We're here to make a buck and we

have a fiduciary responsibility

531

:

to our investors and shareholders.

532

:

So I think that the amount of science

that went into the layout, the attraction

533

:

base, everything, what was really.

534

:

It's not just throw some

things in and people will come.

535

:

Right.

536

:

There was a tremendous amount of,

of thought and effort and time

537

:

that went into every, meticulously

planning, every single aspect of this.

538

:

Tyler: That's amazing.

539

:

Yeah.

540

:

When you typically walk into a

building, you don't think too much

541

:

of like, Hey, where's everything at?

542

:

And why is it spared

out the way that it is?

543

:

But it is amazing to have someone

come in with that type of experience

544

:

and help kind of lay that out.

545

:

So I guess.

546

:

That leading up to this question,

do you walk into other entertainment

547

:

spaces and now with that science

mindset going, why did they do this?

548

:

Or that should be better.

549

:

A hundred percent.

550

:

Yeah.

551

:

Erik: It's funny, we, this is a,

a close knit community of people.

552

:

Mm-hmm.

553

:

You know, there's only a

handful of entertainment

554

:

centers throughout the country.

555

:

Right, true.

556

:

So we've had the privilege of going down,

you know, we've been to Tampa, Florida,

557

:

Madison, Wisconsin, Orlando, Florida.

558

:

We've been to Raleigh.

559

:

So we, we've seen a lot of

other facilities and met

560

:

with the ownership groups.

561

:

And the, the generosity of time

and knowledge was incredible.

562

:

I, I mean, truly overwhelming of

pulling back the curtain and saying,

563

:

look, this is where we screwed up.

564

:

We don't want you to

make the same mistake.

565

:

Yeah.

566

:

This is something that we've done

that's been tremendously successful.

567

:

You know, have you thought about that?

568

:

And so, you know, we're like sponges.

569

:

We absorb it all and we try

to make educated decisions

570

:

based on our own facility.

571

:

But yeah, it.

572

:

It's funny when you walk in and

you can immediately, within a

573

:

matter of seconds, say this, this

is a slow pocket and here's why.

574

:

Ah, okay.

575

:

Yeah.

576

:

So yeah, it a great question.

577

:

I.

578

:

Tyler: That's neat.

579

:

I guess you were talking about the

community of like entertainment spaces.

580

:

Yeah.

581

:

I guess it does make sense for

them to be a little bit more

582

:

open, I guess, other places.

583

:

'cause really there's,

there's no competition, right?

584

:

No.

585

:

And it's only gonna be more synergistic

if they can go to another entertainment

586

:

place and have a good experience.

587

:

Then when they do go to Tampa.

588

:

Like, Hey, we had an awesome

time up in Surf City.

589

:

We should go to this one that's similar.

590

:

Erik: Yeah.

591

:

Tyler: So I guess it does make sense

that they want to build and like

592

:

keep that a close knit community.

593

:

Erik: Well, and even the referrals,

so like, we were in Wisconsin, I

594

:

don't know, three or four weeks ago.

595

:

Okay.

596

:

Beautiful.

597

:

Madison, Wisconsin had

my first cheese curd.

598

:

No, it was delicious.

599

:

But a gentleman up there named

Guy Kiel owns a place called

600

:

The Thrill Factory in Madison.

601

:

And, we were talking and he

was super candid and, and

602

:

sharing some things with us.

603

:

And he said, Hey guys, I've

noticed on your Facebook page

604

:

you're crushing it on Facebook.

605

:

I am struggling with social media.

606

:

You know, what are you doing

that I might not be seeing?

607

:

Mm-hmm.

608

:

And so we referred him

to our social media team.

609

:

They're now having in

conversations where he's looking

610

:

to hire them in as consultants.

611

:

Oh, wow.

612

:

So it's, it's with the

rising tide lifts all ships.

613

:

Tyler: Yeah.

614

:

Erik: And, and we even embrace that

approach here in the community.

615

:

So some of our investors

are local businesses,

616

:

Chris: right?

617

:

Erik: You know, we have partnerships with

Salty Turtle, Lauder's Furniture, sundial

618

:

Coffee and Tea hidden Chips, where it's

like, look, we have an opportunity here

619

:

where we could use US Foods or Cisco

for our coffee and tea, but why not

620

:

partner with a local business, right?

621

:

Who's invested in us?

622

:

Mm-hmm.

623

:

We're gonna turn around and invest in you.

624

:

And now Sundown coffee and tea or coffee

and tea purveyors for the facility.

625

:

Wow, that's awesome.

626

:

ER's furniture.

627

:

All of our outdoor furniture in the beer

garden is gonna be louder furniture.

628

:

So it's that community mentality of like,

we're not competing with each other.

629

:

Let's look for the, those

synergistic opportunities to lift

630

:

everyone up so we can all thrive.

631

:

Chris: High tides and good vibes.

632

:

That's it.

633

:

And I've, it's something I've

definitely seen in this area for sure.

634

:

'cause usually we're go into an area

and it's very, very competitive.

635

:

Across the board, but every

time we come up here, everyone

636

:

is shouting out their neighbor.

637

:

Yeah.

638

:

Because they're actually good people.

639

:

Yeah.

640

:

They're helping out.

641

:

They're like, oh, hey,

no, we were over here.

642

:

And they like, they did a great job.

643

:

They, they shouted us out.

644

:

They put up this, we

were, surf City smashed.

645

:

And he was like, yeah, we were

just down in Hidden Ships and

646

:

they shouted us out for food.

647

:

Yeah.

648

:

I was like, that's what you want.

649

:

Tyler: Like talk

650

:

Chris: to Sango into

Salt Marsh and getting,

651

:

Tyler: Ice cream sandwiches.

652

:

Delicious.

653

:

Oh gosh.

654

:

George used to have those

actually before the cheese sticks.

655

:

That's, that's he was saying.

656

:

Yeah.

657

:

So it's,

658

:

Erik: it's such a community feel.

659

:

And, and look, it's a small

town, so we frequent the same.

660

:

George and I were talking about

this podcast today 'cause I knew

661

:

he was gonna be on it this morning.

662

:

Yeah, yeah.

663

:

We go to the same chiropractor.

664

:

So yesterday morning we're.

665

:

Having therapy next to each other.

666

:

So like you see these people

out and about in the community.

667

:

George has a restaurant background,

so he's been super helpful with

668

:

us of like, Hey, have you thought

about doing this with your hood?

669

:

Have you thought about, so

it, it's, how do we look?

670

:

No one's gonna monopolize the f

and b market in this town, right?

671

:

So how do we work together and be

like, Hey, you know, we had this

672

:

menu, so and so has this menu.

673

:

If you're craving that,

go check these guys out.

674

:

They're awesome.

675

:

They do a great job.

676

:

Have a great product.

677

:

What we believe so

strongly in that mentality.

678

:

Yeah.

679

:

Chris: No, I love

680

:

Erik: that.

681

:

Tyler: So what is the food and beverage

menu gonna look like when it opens up?

682

:

Or do you know yet?

683

:

Erik: Yeah, no, we do, we have a

amazing f and b consultant who's going

684

:

to be coming on as our owner's wrap.

685

:

It's gonna be bar food with a flare.

686

:

Tyler: Okay.

687

:

So

688

:

Erik: anytime you have an arcade

and, and bowling and things like

689

:

that, you really, you can't, it's not

really a fork in knife establishment.

690

:

If you were, you know, we're not

having a 40 ounce porterhouse or.

691

:

So, you know, we're gonna

have bar food with a Flare.

692

:

So Kraft Burgers, Kraft

Pizzas some great sandwiches.

693

:

Our appetizer menu's gonna be amazing.

694

:

We call 'em Shareables.

695

:

Oh, yeah.

696

:

Things that you'll have at like

a bowling lane where Oh, yeah.

697

:

Everybody can, you know, reach

in It's the perfect size.

698

:

Exactly.

699

:

Versus that

700

:

Chris: like, they only give

you four chicken tenders.

701

:

Yes.

702

:

And you're like Exactly.

703

:

Erik: These are mine.

704

:

Yes.

705

:

Especially Crust.

706

:

So, you know, the food's gonna be amazing.

707

:

Our menu and, and the.

708

:

Everything's house made.

709

:

The sauces are all house made.

710

:

Okay?

711

:

It's the little touches

that I think elevate.

712

:

You know, a burger can be

a burger, can be a burger.

713

:

You know, our, our.

714

:

Meat mix, for lack of

a better term mm-hmm.

715

:

Between sirloin and wagu, all those things

is, is impeccable, but it's the sauces

716

:

and the fresh produce and the things that

really, in my mind, help elevated the bun.

717

:

Chris: They really do.

718

:

Right?

719

:

Erik: Yeah.

720

:

Like, people don't think about the bun,

but a bun can make or break a burger.

721

:

Chris: True.

722

:

That's what I learned this morning.

723

:

Yeah.

724

:

French fries,

725

:

Erik: another thing.

726

:

Your sides.

727

:

Yes.

728

:

So, there's, there's a lot of thought

being put into that craft cocktails.

729

:

Yeah.

730

:

You know, we wanna have high end spirits.

731

:

So you can have your house

liquors, obviously, but you

732

:

know, it's important to us.

733

:

I, I'm a scotch and tequila guy.

734

:

Tyler: Oh, nice.

735

:

Okay.

736

:

Erik: There's not a ton of places around

here where you can go in and get a good

737

:

high-end, you know, scotch or tequila.

738

:

Correct.

739

:

And especially with the

vacation market coming here.

740

:

When you go on vacation,

you go on vacation with the

741

:

intention of spending money.

742

:

Yeah.

743

:

Right.

744

:

So try something new.

745

:

So we're gonna have a robust

election some really cool craft

746

:

cocktails that we're excited about.

747

:

And then from a local beer standpoint,

a salty turtle being a partner, right?

748

:

Mm-hmm.

749

:

We're gonna have three proprietary

beers from Salty Turtle that

750

:

we're gonna have on draft.

751

:

Oh, sweet.

752

:

Nice.

753

:

So, you know, we're big into the

local products and, and hidden

754

:

working with Hidden Ships to have

hidden Chips product in there.

755

:

Chris: Yeah.

756

:

Erik: So that's kind of our

methodology with everything.

757

:

But, you know, we really want everyone

to have an elevated experience.

758

:

We want the restaurant not

to be like, oh, I'm bowling.

759

:

Let's eat.

760

:

'cause we're bowling.

761

:

We want the restaurant to be

like coming to the restaurant.

762

:

I don't care if I'm gonna bowl or

not, I'm coming here to get a meal.

763

:

'cause the food's freaking awesome.

764

:

Nice.

765

:

So that, that's our thought process there.

766

:

Chris: Good.

767

:

So looking at life and time.

768

:

Yeah.

769

:

What does success look like

for you in both aspects?

770

:

One for the business here, like

high tides, good vibes, but also

771

:

in your, your traditional job.

772

:

Erik: Yeah, that's a great question.

773

:

High tides and good vibes.

774

:

I think success looks like.

775

:

You know, establishing this flagship

location and really being able

776

:

to scale up and build the brand.

777

:

Okay.

778

:

I think in today's marketplace, brand

is more important than anything.

779

:

Right.

780

:

I could go down a rabbit hole

that I'll, right, Brittany?

781

:

Yeah.

782

:

You know, I, I think if you

follow the chain of historical

783

:

events, you know, it used to be.

784

:

The radio and then it was you

know, the TV and now it's the

785

:

internet and social media.

786

:

And so the consumption of the consumer

of how they, I guess, absorb content.

787

:

Mm-hmm.

788

:

You know, it's, we're in an

attention based society now.

789

:

And so when you build the right brand,

if someone says, Hey, you know, tell me

790

:

something fun to do in the area to chat

GPT or something, when you have a brand.

791

:

It's pulling from that brand, right?

792

:

And so you're feeding the agro,

the algorithms and things like

793

:

that, which gets really heady,

but that's the way we're going.

794

:

Yep.

795

:

For me, success on a personal

level is it really has nothing

796

:

to do with business at all.

797

:

It has to do with being

a father and a husband.

798

:

You know, being my girls are 12

and 10, I've got short time with

799

:

them while they're still at home

and maximizing that time with them.

800

:

Creating opportunities for them

where whether they wanna work in my

801

:

businesses or they have the foundation

that they see from what my wife and

802

:

I have created with work ethic and.

803

:

You know, having a dream and

making it come to fruition.

804

:

You know, both my parents are

elementary school teachers.

805

:

I came from extremely

humble be beginnings.

806

:

Yeah.

807

:

You know, I, I built everything I

have from the ground up and just

808

:

showing them that, you know, for

me, my success will come in the

809

:

productivity of my children in society.

810

:

And, and we work really hard on

that as a family of, you know,

811

:

everything has to be earned.

812

:

And that's, that's what I'm focused

on from a personal success standpoint.

813

:

Tyler: That's fantastic.

814

:

I like that answer a lot.

815

:

Well, thank you.

816

:

So after looking forward a little bit to

take a look back, if you were to tell your

817

:

younger self one thing, what would it be?

818

:

Erik: Oh, God.

819

:

That's, that's a hell of a question.

820

:

Yeah.

821

:

That failure is okay.

822

:

You know, the best.

823

:

Everyone loves to win.

824

:

I, I'm one of 'em.

825

:

Of course.

826

:

I hate losing more than I love winning.

827

:

Chris: Yeah.

828

:

Erik: But I have learned more

from my failures and my losses.

829

:

I've hit a point in my life where

it's, I don't worry about failing.

830

:

I look for micro failures.

831

:

Right?

832

:

Right.

833

:

Like, I want to fail,

but I wanna fail small.

834

:

I'm gonna learn from my failures,

but they can't be catastrophic

835

:

failures at this point in my life.

836

:

So it's really, you know, i, I

think something else I would've

837

:

told my younger self is humility.

838

:

Mm-hmm.

839

:

Humility's so important and candor.

840

:

I, I think I learned

humility fairly young.

841

:

Candor is something I still struggle

with, but I'm getting better.

842

:

When you have employees,

I'm a people guy, right?

843

:

I lo and the closer I get to people,

the more I love them just 'cause I'm

844

:

spending more time with them and I'm

getting to know 'em on a personal level.

845

:

And it's really hard for me to be candid

with people that are important in my life.

846

:

And so what happens is you have someone

that's not performing at their job,

847

:

but you're not able to convey that.

848

:

So they think they're doing a great job.

849

:

'cause I don't, I, I fail at candor.

850

:

Chris: Yeah.

851

:

So

852

:

Erik: I've really started, you know,

working on being candid with folks and

853

:

so you can tell someone they're not doing

a good job without being an asshole.

854

:

Right?

855

:

Yeah.

856

:

Right.

857

:

Yeah.

858

:

And that was a learning lesson for me.

859

:

So I think the last thing, and I say

this to anyone younger, I'm 43 years old.

860

:

Anyone that's in their twenties or

thirties stop buying dumb shit to impress

861

:

people that you don't really care about.

862

:

Tyler: True.

863

:

Erik: I see these young people

spending money on cars and Louis

864

:

Vuitton bags and Gucci and Yeah.

865

:

Just dumb shit that you're trying

to impress people that you're

866

:

either not gonna know in five years.

867

:

Mm-hmm.

868

:

Yeah.

869

:

Or you're trying to impress 'em

'cause you don't like 'em anyways

870

:

and you're trying to flex on 'em.

871

:

Yeah.

872

:

Like don't do that.

873

:

Put your money into assets, you know?

874

:

Investments and, and you know,

you'll have the last laugh

875

:

in your forties and fifties.

876

:

True.

877

:

But you don't need to flex

with A BMW at 26 years old.

878

:

Very, very true.

879

:

Yeah.

880

:

It's, it's four wheels in an engine.

881

:

Yep.

882

:

And I suffered from that as a younger kid.

883

:

I had a Range Rover

when I was 28 years old.

884

:

That if you want the

full story, get repoed.

885

:

Oh, oh no.

886

:

Because of a failure.

887

:

Chris: Yeah.

888

:

Erik: Yeah.

889

:

But I was, I had no

business being in that car.

890

:

It was a flex trying to, you

know, look successful instead

891

:

of actually being successful.

892

:

Tyler: Yeah.

893

:

That's fantastic.

894

:

No, I love that advice too.

895

:

So in the financial industry myself, so

anytime that there's someone else that's

896

:

spreading that news to anyone who, who

feels that way is, is always welcomed.

897

:

Yeah.

898

:

So thank you.

899

:

Chris: Absolutely.

900

:

So, 'cause you have an

amazing social media presence.

901

:

Well, thank you.

902

:

How can people follow you guys?

903

:

Erik: Yeah, so our website is

high tides and good vibes.com.

904

:

Our Facebook is high tides and good vibes.

905

:

Facebook at high tides and good vibes.

906

:

I don't know our Instagram handle,

I should know that has, I guarantee

907

:

you, has something to do with high

and good lives if I had to guess.

908

:

But yeah, those are the

best places to follow us.

909

:

We update regularly.

910

:

You know, we have an amazing social

media team that does a lot of good work

911

:

and Taylor Caruso, shout out to her.

912

:

Oh yeah.

913

:

She, she does a great job.

914

:

We know Taylor.

915

:

Yeah.

916

:

So I'd love to take credit for our

social media success, but that's all her.

917

:

Yeah.

918

:

But yeah.

919

:

Tyler: Awesome.

920

:

Thank you so much for Thank you.

921

:

Letting us in here and hanging

out with the dirt piles.

922

:

This is awesome and a happy first for

us to be able to sit here with you.

923

:

Erik: Well, I appreciate you having

me on and, you know, for those those

924

:

listeners come check out Surf City.

925

:

There's a lot of good

things happening here.

926

:

You heard about George, you're gonna

hear about Hidden Ships later on.

927

:

I say that as if you've already aired

this, but chronologically, yeah.

928

:

But no good, good things

happening in Surf City.

929

:

Come check us out.

930

:

Chris: Appreciate it.

931

:

Thank you.

932

:

We'll catch you guys the next one.

933

:

Cheers.

934

:

Cheers.

935

:

Tyler: Awesome.

936

:

Thank you.

937

:

Thanks guys.

Next Episode All Episodes Previous Episode

Support Whiskey & Wisdom

A huge thank you to our supporters, it means a lot that you support our podcast.

If you like the podcast and want to support it, too, you can leave us a tip using the button below. We really appreciate it and it only takes a moment!
Support Whiskey & Wisdom
A
We haven’t had any Tips yet :( Maybe you could be the first!

Listen for free

Show artwork for Whiskey & Wisdom

About the Podcast

Whiskey & Wisdom
Talking about life over a glass of whiskey
Discussing life's most fascinating topics over a good glass of whiskey.
Support This Show

About your host

Profile picture for Tyler Yaw

Tyler Yaw